Jeff Laird I keed, I keed.

Wendyl Leslie Good ol’ Tim. Always trying to stir up the natives. grin emoticon

Patrick Thompson Maybe it is good timing, as another brother from my church and I have been doing an active Bible Study on prayer. I came across some very interesting words from Andrew Murray regarding fasting. “Sometimes prayer needs to be combined with fasting for its perfect development. Prayer is like one hand grasping the invisible; fasting is like the other letting go of the visible”. “The first thought suggested by Jesus’ words about fasting and prayer is that only in a life of moderation and temperance and self-denial will there be the heart or strength to pray much”.

Tim White That’s what I’m talking about. Either Jesus paid it all or we have to pay some. Either it is of grace to those who believe or we have to help. Andrew Murray is one of the teachers I was referring to, who unwittingly fall from grace into teaching it’s partially about us and our effort.

Jed Kramer Interesting thoughts. I’d love to read what you write on this topic,Tim White. This topic seems to fall into a category similar to that of baptism. (fasting isn’t part of the great commission like baptism is, but …) Neither one adds to our salva…See More

Ed Chait I agree Jed. Like so many things, I think it boils down to where our heart is at.

Tim White What disturbs me is, I have no problem with someone utilizing fasting for more focus, self-discipline or reminders of prayers. I have no problem with someone taking their Bible, hiking up to a mountain top and spending the day fellowshipping with God. He would have more focus in the solitude. But to find teachings, sermons, lessons, books, articles, etc… to support fasting without crossing over to “more power” works based favor is impossible. Even the most respected teachers cross over if you are sensitively guarded against works-based power in prayer. Because there is scripture about fasting, most of these teachers place it somewhere between baptism and going for a solitude study on a mountain top.

Sarah Van Baale I used to fast regularly. And now that I’m done having children, I’ve started again. But I never thought it was a means of putting more power behind my prayers. I always thought it was a way to remind myself of my utmost reliance on Christ in all things. When I intentionally crucify my flesh, it helps me to put all my appetites in check and understand that all provision is from Christ alone. Isn’t this really more about the motivations behind fasting? Fasting to bring power to your own desires is absurd. But fasting as a means of relying upon Christ in all things seems appropriate, doesn’t it?

Tim White Sarah, so glad you found the way to that. Unfortunately, to find teaching that limits it to that, I am frustrated.

Lea Ann Davis McCombs I have wondered what the connection is in Matt 17 when Jesus says that certain demons can only be driven out by prayer and fasting. There is some disagreement about whether that verse is supposed to be in the passage, but for arguments’ sake, Tim, what purpose do you believe fasting played in that instance?

Ed Chait I was also thinking of that, Lea Ann. I think that since the disciples had been successful previously in driving out demons, they began to think it was them doing it instead of God working through them. Therefore, Jesus was reinforcing to them and reminding them that they needed to be dependent on God for their power.

Sarah Van Baale I know Tim can answer for himself. But I really see fasting as a means to strengthen our faith, and I think the Bible supports that idea. Galatians 2:20-21 reads” I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!” Could it be that the faith of the disciples was lacking and thereby “limited” what they “allowed” God to do through them? I put limited and allowed in quotes because truly no human can limit or allow God in any way. But there is something to be said about submitting to God’s will and authority in such a way that He can move freely through you, as was the perfect model with Jesus. Could it be that the disciples needed to crucify their flesh more so that God had more “freedom” to do work through them? And perhaps fasting is a way to put to death our flesh so that God can work more perfectly through us.

Ed Chait James, John and Peter were missing because they were at the transfiguration, so maybe they thought it was their absence made the difference smile emoticon

Sarah Van Baale I guess we were thinking along the same lines, Ed. I was typing when you last posted, so I didn’t see what you had written. But essentially, I think we agree. smile emoticon

Ed Chait I think we do agree. I am dismayed at Tim’s difficulty in finding teaching that limits it to that.

Sarah Van Baale In general, sound teaching is exceedingly difficult to come by these days in nearly every arena of the Christian faith. Most Christian bookstores and blogs are filled with more self serving gobbledygook than they are with truth.

Jed Kramer I pefer anti-fasting. The more often I eat, the more I remember to pray. smile emoticon