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ISIS and the Old Testament

April 2nd, 2015

Craig Simons
April 1, 2015

I have a dilemma going on as I am doing my Bible reading. Maybe you all can help. I know God is holy and we are not. I know he hates sin and will punish it. That being said, I’m having difficulty reconciling the violence in the Old Testament and the violence committed by Muslims today. I have difficulty condemning what, say, ISIS is doing versus what God commanded Joshua and Israel to do in taking the land He was giving them.

Thoughts?

  • Johan Ferreira I see it as Joshua was doing what God told him to do and the reason God gave these instructions we to serve as punishment for sins committed by the other nations, warning for God’s people against sin, but also as gaining the rewards for previous faith. God allowed all of this to work together. While now we know that God wants us to achieve everything we do now through faith and love because He already took the punishment for us. There should no longer be any punishment for anyone on earth. This is Why ISIS is wrong in this regard. They are trying force people to their God through fear and pain when all we should be doing now is love. This is my opinion anyway. Great question and I would love to hear how others think. This is a great way to learn and grow
    Yesterday at 3:35pm · Like · 1
  • Lincoln Bostick As I understand the Old Testament God used Israel to judge the nations that were serving other gods.
    Yesterday at 3:36pm · Like · 1
  • Fred Apelquist Craig, great point. I (and many others in my church) have struggled with that. Unfortunately, the comparisons between the Jews and Muslims are germane. God commanded Joshua (real short story, as I understand it, but certainly will defer to the pastors in our midst who are better informed) to kill those because they had violated His laws by worshipping idols, sacrificing children, and doing many other horrendous and ungodly acts. Of course, many Muslims of the ISIS ilk will say the same of us. The difference, of course, is the nature of our God v. Allah, and that’s tricky. Given that Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe in one and only God, a God of Abraham, then this God must be the same. True enough. But do are three have the same conception and view of Him? I think we all know that the answer is No, and thus, the problem.

    For a great discussion on the ‘hard’ verses in the OT, read God Behaving Badly by David T. Lamb.
    Yesterday at 3:45pm · Like · 1
  • Jeff Laird The biggest practical difference is that God gave those commands in a specific time, place, and circumstance. There was no general command to do anything like that. Christ told us to expect persecution and endure insult, those were general commands for all people. Mohammad’s last commands were those of general violence towards nonbelievers. Historically, this has shown itself in how Islamic nations handle war, aggression, and civil rights in comparison to nations with a Christian background.
    Yesterday at 4:31pm · Like · 3
  • Christopher Dupre A thinking man’s question. I wish more people would struggle as you. I would encourage you to write a list of similarities and differences between the two ‘sides of violence’. Just remember that God’s judgment was on the people of Cana, as their sin had reached the point of saturation. There was no redeeming them. Also, Israel’s edict was to take hold of a specific land and then ‘set up shop’ to show the world how God blesses those who follow the one true God.

    Islam, by and large, is the culmination of God’s judgment on the world. “OK. Enough time has passed. Now you decide. Will you follow Allah, or will you die?” Either way, we’re taking over the whole world, and you will eventually be under Sharia as a Muslim, or as a Kafir. And you don’t want to be under Sharia as a Kafir.”

    I’m no expert, but I’ve studied some. In the Quran, God’s love is ALWAYS mentioned conditionally. He only loves those who ‘do good’. Time after time. So, the Muslim is not called to love the unbeliever or his enemy, but to honor Allah by spreading Islam until it is the only religion in the world.

    The main difference is that Israel’s mandate to punish truly was from God (not that that would convince an unbeliever), and was very limited to a specific land and people. Islam’s violent mandate is not from God, and is open ended to encompass the whole world until everyone in it submits in one fashion or another.

    I don’t believe we worship the same God at all. Because of Mohammad, Muslims have misidentified who the True God is. We know through the Bible that God puts a lot of emphasis on His identity. Islam is the only religion that denies Christ is the Son of God and His resurrection in its Scriptures.
    Yesterday at 4:32pm · Like · 2
  • James Toland From what I understand, Jeff’s comment about “a specific time, place and circumstance” says it all. Where as Islam’s command for jihad is universal against all non believers anywhere at anytime, God’s command was temporary, for a specific people and region for the reason that Lincoln Bostick mentioned. It’s not a blank check for full scale genocide against non believers in 2015.
    Yesterday at 4:53pm · Edited · Like · 2
  • Marilyn Mcclintock Thanks everyone. Your answers help me “get it”.
    21 hrs · Like · 1
  • Tim White Never did God call for judgment on a culture that did not fit the atrocities that culture committed. The harshness can be justified on at least two levels. First, the cruelty against the most vulnerable, such as infants, children, the disabled, the weak and the elderly. How can that be compared to what ISIL attacks and punishes. In truth, they punish those God commands us to protect. Second, God called judgment upon those who mocked His name and hated His people. Their wicked religious was Satanic. For such wicked, worthless ones to defy the High and holy God can be equated to a sloth poking a stick at the most fierce lion.
    19 hrs · Like · 2

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