New Volunteer with a Hypothetical Question (Why not “enjoy” sin and wait on salvation?)

February 25, 2015

Background: I am Kris Cadogan, 20 years old. I conceive questions in my mind and try to answer them. I literally want to know everything about God even what some people may consider mundane things (Does he have a favourite colour if so what is it? etc.). I imagine in heaven that I will be quite the greedy believer , “keeping” the Lord to all myself all day long lol. I propose that the reason I have not received a visit from God as yet is because I would keep him here with me asking him questions and discussing EVERYTHING with him.

Below is one such scenario written to foster discussion. It does not necessarily reflect my views.
Scenario
This issue have been bothering me for some time and it is difficult for me to understand.
I know of all the effects of sin; how it produces death and eternal separation from God. I am also aware of the fact that Christians are new creations and strive to please God by attaining as much victory as possible over sin by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Now my issue is simple, the bible has dealt with the problem numerous times in Psalm 73, Malachi 2:17 and Malachi 3:13-18. But our modern day situation seems different.
Now to the problem.
What does a person actually gain by being sorry for their sins? I know this is a wide blanket statement which can be easily refuted but I shall narrow it down with an example.
E.g.
A promiscuous woman would have multiple partners, then come to the faith and find a loving faithful husband and then be blessed with a good family. While the woman who was saving herself for marriage would have to live her life in solitude and receive no blessing in this area of her life. The world today abounds with such examples of evil acts being “rewarded/not being punished/ disciplined”.
For me, it doesn’t seem fair (well according to my perhaps sinfully skewed definition of fairness). Many believers harbour feelings of bitterness and resentment stemming from these types of issues. As one looks around in the Church/community of believers it is hard to rationalize this situation. It almost seems as if it profited this person( who is fictional) to sin and do evil, similar to how some would suggest that David’s sin ultimately profited him( they completely ignore the fact that he lost his son) ; in that Solomon was born from that union. This is an example of how God can work bad into good but then what advice can I give to someone who says “ I can commit this sin, because God could/would turn it into something good,”. Maybe this is the rationale for some people who justify extramarital relations or who engage in premarital sex (the resulting children being the blessing).
Will the promiscuous woman not be as greatly rewarded in heaven (Judgement Seat of Christ) as the woman who remained celibate? Or does God not take into account our obedience to his word before we are saved? If so, it would seem better to some people to try and “beat the system” and turn to God later on in life while they enjoy the pleasures of their youth ( though there is no guarantee than one will return to God neither does one know the hour at which his life will be demanded of him).

What better way to introduce myself to the community and interact with you than to see how you guys think. I eagerly look forward to hearing your thoughts concerning this fictional scenario.

May God give us all strength to continue in the face of our various and diverse trials.

It is my pleasure to be acquainted with you all.

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Ed Chait and Corpuz Valdemor Avellaneda Ramil like this.
Robert Lowry Hi Kris welcome to this group. Two things come to mind from your post. Without going into great detail, Isaiah 55:8 would have application, in the sense that in this life we cannot always understand why God does what He does or allows what He seems to allow: “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.” With regard to rewards at the Judgment seat of Christ, remember that those rewards (crowns) are given based on at least 5 criteria for the Christian: (1) overcoming our old sinful nature, 1 Cor. 9:25, (2) for winning souls, 1 Thess 2:19-20,(3) for enduring temptation, James 1:12 and/or persecution Rev. 2:10, (4) for looking forward to Christ’s return, 2 Tim. 4:8, and (5) for shepherding the flock (1 Peter 5:4.

17 hrs · Like
Jeff Laird Welcome!

Without getting overly long or detailed, I’d say that disobedience, even before salvation, doesn’t result in any net benefit. Every redeemed believer I know wishes they’d been saved sooner, never fallen into their sins, and so forth. I’ve yet to meet a believer who daydreams about being saved later, or waiting longer to get right with God. There’s nothing gained by sin that a Christian wouldn’t give up in a heartbeat in order to go back and never have sinned in the first place.

In my own case, at least, I can say that’s explicitly true. I experienced a lot of the things the world says are good for young people to do before they “settle down”. Supposedly, I should be glad I had the chance to “get mine” before God calmed me down. On the contrary, I’m still suffering the consequences of those choices. They will forever affect my relationship with my spouse, my spirituality, my physical health, and my testimony with certain people. I would be happier, healthier, and more successful had I not gone down the dark, crooked paths I chose.

Sin is not God’s plan. His will is always the best thing for our lives (John 10:10). He provides for us better than we ever could for ourselves. What we think we’re gaining by defying Him is not only keeping us from His blessings (Philippians 3:7-10), it’s hurting us (Proverbs 13:15). The world bragging about the benefits of sin is like a man who just lost an arm bragging that he only has to spend half as much on gloves.

17 hrs · Like · 1
Christopher Dupre Not sure, but it seems you are describing the promiscuity as something positive, that the celibate woman was missing out on something special? I can’t tell if that’s what you were saying. Anyway, we never miss out on anything when we are in God’s will. We are never more enveloped in the fruit of the Spirit more than when we are walking close to Him. So, the Jews of Jesus’ time also struggled with similar notions, but Jesus told them the Parable of the workers in the vineyard. Some came late to the game (Christians), but they were paid the same wages as those who worked the whole day (Jews). The point? The last will be first, the first will be last. In other words, we shouldn’t concentrate on what we think is fair for us. Our focus should be on others’ welfare, and on being obedient to God’s will and receptive to the wisdom of His Spirit. The promiscuous woman will probably be all the more grateful to God for His mercy than the chaste one. Luke 7:36 and following tells it better than me, though.

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Lea Ann Davis McCombs Hi Kris, Welcome! You think some deep thoughts to be so young. Yes, there are many who use the worn-out excuse that they want to sow their wild oats now and get saved later on. As a counselor, I talk to many people who sowed their wild oats and the battle scars don’t go away. When we look into someone’s life from the outside, it can appear that “everything turned out better” for their having sinned so much. But we don’t see what’s really going on inside or that often it is not only them who suffer. Those children born into a broken family, out of wedlock, no dads, early exposure to evil…those are all real consequences too. The sin strongholds of addiction, mistrust, sexual dysfunction, etc may not be obvious to outsiders, but they are constant weights to the person living with them. God knows what He is doing and when we do it his way, we can trust him with the results.

17 hrs · Like
William Brenner Having so many questions for God is another way of praying in conversation with Him. No problem there. For many people prayer is more of a distraction they rarely do, until they face problems. So keep that desire to know more about Him . But also trust in Him even when you don’t have the answers.

17 hrs · Like · 2
Ed Chait Solomon wrote Ecclesiastes after he had experienced and exhausted all the “good” things the world has to offer in his search for meaning and fulfillment. He was a wise man and this is what he concluded:

(Ecclesiastes 12:13) The end of the matter; all has been heard. Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.

16 hrs · Like · 1
Wendyl Leslie Kris, though one may enjoy their sins for a season, such as in “enjoying promiscuous sex.” But they will always suffer the consequences of their sins. The Bible is very clear about this: “Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap” (Gal. 6:7).

As for David, there are two phrases that are profound regarding David’s illicit liaison with Bathsheba: “from your own house” (2 Samuel 12:11), and “fourfold” (2 Samuel 12:6). Nathan’s words to David summarized for him what his consequences would be: 1) The baby born as a result of this affair died, 2) Amnon rapes Tamar, 3) Amnon is murdered by Absalom, then 4) Absalom is killed.

Yes, Solomon was born, but David paid a huge price for his sins. And this hold trues for all of us. Though we may be forgiven, we’re not immune from the ravages of sin. It was also Solomon who has told us that there is “nothing new under the sun” (Eccl. 1:9). No, our modern-day situation is no different from that of 3,000 years ago. The Bible and it’s truths are just as relevant today as they were then.

16 hrs · Like · 1
Sarah Van Baale If you choose to look at life as a system of rewards and consequences, then the world would suggest to wait to “be saved” so that you can have “fun” and get all of your self-serving sins out of the way. But we don’t live in a world that is merely a “system to be beat” (as Saul Alinsky might argue). We live in a world created by God who desires to have relationship with us. Yes, there are laws, and there are rewards and consequences. But the greatest motivating factor for obeying Christ is love. And true love is not self serving and doesn’t desire to move away from Christ, but toward Him. Think about a good relationship with someone you love deeply (parent, grandparent, etc.). Does your love for them outweigh your love for yourself? Would you find it hard to do what they asked of you if it required that you give sacrificially of yourself? How much more sacrificially would you give to the God of the universe who died in your place?

A person who is saved longs to draw nearer to Christ. Sin separates us from Christ. Matthew 6:24 reminds us that we cannot serve two masters. James 4:4 is even clearer and reads “You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.” A person who’s heart has changed may still struggle with some sins, but deeply longs and desires to have a personal relationship with God. Because their heart has been changed, they aren’t looking for a way to game the system and they aren’t envious of those who lived a worldly life only to be saved near the end. Their focus is on Christ, not on themselves.

15 hrs · Like · 1
Tim White Looks like everyone is weighing in on the welcome bout. Kris, your discussion/question makes a common error. Francis Chan does this thing with a long spool of string. He says the string is your life. He unspools it around the auditorium as he speaks. Then he shows the initial end. 1 inch of it is painted red. He says the red represents your life on earth and the remaining foreverness of the spool represents your life in eternity. That little red inch of string is all the time you have to prepare for eternity. It is not about how many pleasures you can cram into the inch of sting, what you can get away with or even how much your enjoy your inch. It is to prepare for eternity. Thus, “Eye hasn’t seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart imagine what God has for those who love Him.”

14 hrs · Like · 3
Sarah Van Baale Tim, I couldn’t agree more. I’ve actually used Chan’s piece quite a bit. Here it is in case anyone is interested:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jF_x8dsvb_4

Francis Chan Rope Illustration

YOUTUBE.COM

13 hrs · Like · Remove Preview
Kris Cadogan Thanks for all of your comments

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Gwen Sellers Welcome, Kris Cadogan! This was a great discussion. Thank you all!

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