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On suicide in a terminal cancer patient

October 15th, 2014

So I saw this video and it really has me thinking, and struggling with what the biblical answer would be. Obviously suicide is NOT a wise choice, and the taking of any life, including your own, in a moment of weakness would be sinful although forgivable, and for the Christian, covered by the blood of Christ. What do you all think of this woman’s case? Obviously we know the great physician can heal anyone, but in a case like this, where things are progressing rapidly, where her condition is worsening, and she will most likely die a painful, debilitating death, what would you say to her and the family? I used to think my answer would be cut and dry, but as I’ve been around pain and suffering in people’s lives, I’m not so sure how I would answer this…

http://abc7chicago.com/health/why-29-year-old-brittany-maynard-is-choosing-to-end-her-life/340551/

29-year-old woman diagnosed with terminal cancer dedicates remaining time to end-of-life choice…
29-year-old woman diagnosed with terminal cancer dedicates remaining time to…
ABC7CHICAGO.COM
  • Seen by 53
  • Ed Chait That’s because you’re a Christian, praise God.
    October 7 at 7:24pm · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait My sister Ruthie had a seizure early one morning in 1982. She was diagnosed with a brain tumor and underwent surgery. After the surgery, the surgeons came out and told us that the borders of the tumor were not well-defined, but they removed as much of it as they could. It was good to hear them say, however, that if she survived five years, she would be OK. Every year she survived, we could carve another notch on our bedpost of hope. Her tumor came back aggressively on the 5th year and she died a very slow and laborious death over the span of two months, like a candle getting dimmer and dimmer. She was 33. I hope someone shared the gospel with her.
    October 7 at 7:55pm · Like · 2
  • Kris Theobald Ed I am sorry that you and your family went through the pain of losing someone you loved at such a young age, to such a terrible disease. I also hope that someone told her of that “living hope” that we have in Christ.
    October 7 at 8:01pm · Like · 2
  • Ed Chait Thank you Kris. I do agree with Tim’s perspective, but nonbelievers are going to take things into their own hands.
    October 7 at 8:11pm · Like
  • Christopher Dupre This really is already done with hospice care. Once the pain for the patient becomes unbearable, they sedate them until death. No water or food. Often times they just speed up the process by overdosing them with the sedative. Not sure how I feel about this.
    October 7 at 8:11pm · Like · 2
  • Kris Theobald It’s kind of like the question people sometimes ask. “If someone put a gun to your head, or your child’s head and said, deny Christ or I’ll kill them, what would you say?” I’d like to believe I’d have the grace, faith, and strength to stand firm, but I do not know. I might, or I might fail like Peter did. As a pastor, I would want to lovingly share the hope we have in Christ asTim White said. That our present sufferings are nothing compared to the joy set before us. But if they had reached the place that this family has, and they were set and confident on that decision, I would want to offer support but at the same time would be torn at the fact that deep down I don’t believe in ending a life. I just think, at least from a pastoral care perspective, this is a tough road to walk.
    October 7 at 8:18pm · Like · 1
  • Tim White If I understood the question correctly, it was, what do you say? That is cut and dried. 1. If it was an unbeliever, I certainly would not encourage suicide into hell. 2. If it is a believer, I certainly would encourage finishing the course. Granted, I can only advice. I can represent the voice of perseverance. I would love and comfort either group regardless of their choice. But for the first group, even the discussion would open the door to speak of salvation.
    October 7 at 9:38pm · Like · 2
  • Kris Theobald I agree Tim, maybe I’m really not struggling so much with, “what to say” as I reflect on it further, but simply the complexity of the whole situation. I read a similar story of a man slipping into dementia and Alzheimers. He knew the slow, debilitating course he was facing. He had a sick wife who would be left to try and care for him. He was broken, and guilt ridden at the thought of her trying to care for him as he declined. He was desiring assisted suicide to spare her from the burden and heartbreak of seeing him like that. While I still biblically call that sin, and would never advise that course, it’s just a terribly hard situation to minister in. Perhaps words in this case fall short and rather simple love and empathy is needed. Only the gospel message, and the work of the Holy Spirit can change the heart, if ever you needed to rely on Him, this would be the case…
    October 7 at 9:50pm · Edited · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait That was the question, it just reminded me of how difficult these end-of-life situations are.
    October 7 at 9:51pm · Like · 1
  • Tim White It reminds me of the costly price we laid upon ourselves and others by choosing the way of sin. How horrible it is and how tragic is its results.
    October 7 at 10:08pm · Like · 3
  • Patrick Thompson Aloha Kris,
    Having dealt with a couple of instances of suicide on our Island, I know how hard it is to understand what may be going through the mind of people making those decisions. There are many scriptures that could be used to encourage someone considering suicide, but as a Christian considering suicide, 1st Corinthians 6:19-20 certainly gives our bodies to God. The scripture says ” Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, for you were bought with a pride. So glorify god in your body”. Hope this may help some!
    October 7 at 10:31pm · Like · 3
  • Sarah Van Baale Suffering at the beginning, middle, or end of life is all terrible. No one enjoys suffering and everyone seeks to end it. Sometimes God gives us avenues to relive physical and emotional pain, other times, He does not. It doesn’t seem fair when innocent people suffer. But trying to relieve suffering through sin always has consequences. Certainly God forgives Christians who commit suicide, but the consequences still remain. (For instance, legalization of euthanasia for human beings) We do not always understand the mind of Christ and I think we can be very honest in saying we don’t always like how our human suffering seems to be in conflict with a forgiving sovereign God. But looking to sin in an effort to relieve suffering caused by sin is futile. Having compassion for those hurting doesn’t always mean putting an end to their suffering. Sometimes those circumstances are beyond our control. But nothing is more compassionate than pointing them towards Christ. Death, indeed, may end this person’s suffering if she is a believer, but if she is not it is merely the beginning.

    A friend of mine recently died of a very painful aggressive liver cancer. His son was 2 years old. He knew he was going to die and decided to live and die with dignity – giving praise to God the whole time. Ryan was a wonderful example of how to die – knowing where he was going and never once blaming God for his suffering. While the human side seeks to relieve ourselves of pain at every cost, the spiritual side knows that we can give glory to God no matter what our circumstances. And honestly, what better witness can there be? For our lives are in the Father’s hands and there is no better place to be.
    October 8 at 1:16pm · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait A few years ago, physicians were much more reluctant than they are now to prescribe enough pain medication to help alleviate pain when a person was in pain while in the process of dying.

    I’ve also seen the abuse of that as Christopher Dupre mentioned occurs with hospice care where they give so much narcotics that they cause respiratory and cardiac arrest. Sometimes, there is a fine line between controlling severe pain and euthanasia.
    October 8 at 1:57pm · Like
  • Sarah Van Baale That exact thing happened to our neighbor who fell and broke her hip. She was healthy, other than her broken hip, and only in her early 70’s. Yet, hospice came in and said no food, no water, and lots of pain meds. She could speak and was so thirsty and upset about what was going on – but they assured her it was for “her own good”. It was heart wrenching to watch and eventually her kidney’s failed. Thinking that we can end our own suffering – or even take the lives of others – because they are in too much pain is a very slippery slope, but one, that Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel is a fan of.http://www.bostonglobe.com/…/rbnWNNyTyBXb…/story.html…

    Ezekiel Emanuel has a death wish, or so he says – The Boston Globe
    The elderly are such a pain, aren’t they? Dr. Ezekiel…
    BOSTONGLOBE.COM
    October 8 at 2:06pm · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait My mom was on hospice care, which I had assumed was supportive care. She had heart failure and lived for six months on hospice only because we intervened several times and the hospice nurses backed off. If I didn’t work in healthcare, I would just have kept thinking they were providing supportive care.
    October 8 at 2:26pm · Like
  • Christopher Dupre Hospice is only to provide comfort. No medical treatment. Palliative care does both.
    October 8 at 2:45pm · Like · 1
  • Marilyn Mcclintock This lady is in great need of prayer and the gospel. The closer it gets to her death, the more she is going to wonder where she is going to spend eternity. Right now, she is attempting to drown her anxieties by doing what she loves. My best friends’ son died from a brain tumor at age 35. He had rejected the Lord previously, and lived his life like this young lady has done. But, having time to think after his prognosis, he put his trust in Christ as Savior. While at my house having Bible study, he said, “Well, if this is what it took to get me saved, then it’s all worth it.”
    October 8 at 3:43pm · Like · 2
  • Ed Chait My mom was hospitalized with increasing frequency for her heart failure and finally had it with hospitals. She told her doctor that she was ready to die and refused any further hospitalizations. She asked him to put her on hospice and he felt it was appropriate.

    “Supportive care” was not the right choice of words for what I expected from hospice. I expected the nurses to keep her comfortable as her heart failure progressed, not actively try to expedite her death, which was definitely their agenda under the guise of keeping her comfortable..
    October 8 at 5:55pm · Like
  • Jed Kramer I thought about this recently, but came up with no conclusion. I want my life to be a blessing to others, not a hardship. I do not want the time they may spend sustaining me to be taken away from potential interactions in which they may be able to share the gospel with others. I don’t want to limit what God might do through me in a weakened, even vegetative, condition. Yet, I don’t want to use great resources just to retain a semblance of a life when those resources could be invested in an evangelistic ministry … winning souls where I can no longer go.
    October 9 at 9:48pm · Edited · Like · 1
  • Tim White Jed Kramer, I think we all have that sentiment, but that is beside the point. The “I want…” and “I do not wants…” are irrelevant when Christ is Lord of our lives and our deaths. My dad was slipping away. My sister and brother-in-law had moved in with Mom and Dad, and monitored the activity of hospice. Dad slipped into a coma that lasted two days. The third day, he revived, but was in much pain and discomfort. However, when the hospice lady came, he led her to Christ. He then died hours later. Besides all the “I wants…” and the effort our loved ones may endure sustaining us, we will not know the work God is doing in their hearts through that expression of love and reflection on life.
    October 10 at 5:43am · Like · 2
  • Steve Ray Webb Ed Chait, I think you had an experience with hospice that was not representative of hospice care in general. I worked for 5 months as a hospice volunteer in the position of “Spiritual Care Giver” and I definitely did not see people being pushed along towards death. In fact the patients there were given tremendous leeway as to how much pain relief drugs and other medicines they wished to take versus not take. Friends and relatives had pretty much free reign to visit them and check on their status. Hospice beats dying in a hospital any day from what I have seen.
    October 10 at 7:17am · Like
  • Sarah Van Baale Experience really varies from hospice program to hospice program and from caregiver to caregiver. There are multiple stories to be told on both ends of the spectrum.
    October 10 at 7:30am · Like
  • Corpuz Valdemor Avellaneda Ramil However painful the disease or hopeless a person of physical healing, the Bible is clear, nobody has the rights to take his/her own life.
    October 10 at 8:34am · Like · 1
  • Jed Kramer Tim, thanks for pointing out my excessive use of “want”. That was me expressing an opinion that I think may be supported Biblically without digging into the Word on those thoughts yet. The Word is our standard, not my opinion. Even so, this entire discussion has not included much Scripture. If Scripture were clear on these issues, I’m pretty sure we’d have more than 1 Cor 6:19 referenced. Tim & Corpuz, I do fully agree in regard to God as sovereign over life & death. I am not advocating for our right to take action to end our own life. But, extending that idea to require the prolonging of life is not a clear application of Scripture. The struggle we have with this may be the Spirit vs our flesh. But, it may be caused by conflicting moral decisions. Since prolonging a life is not a moral absolute, the idea of graded absolutism promoted by Norman Geisler may be the best approach to each individual circumstance. In this model, Sripture is still our guide; not to provide an absolute for all circumstances, but to help us weigh the multiple moral implications of our present decision.
    October 10 at 9:28pm · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait Thank you Steve, I’m certain that my experience with hospice is not universal, as Sarah mentioned. I apologize for swinging a broad brush at hospice when there are many hospice workers who provide appropriate, loving and caring service.
    October 10 at 9:30pm · Like
  • Ed Chait I agree Jed. I was just thinking that a sick person’s refusal to be hospitalized could be seen and interpreted by some as suicide, albeit over an extended period of time.
    October 10 at 9:35pm · Like · 1
  • Jed Kramer Thought #1 from Scripture: Elijah’s in 1 Kings … “But he himself went a day’s journey into the wilderness and came and sat down under a broom tree. And he asked that he might die, saying, “It is enough; now, O LORD, take away my life, for I am no better than my fathers.”
    And he lay down and slept under a broom tree. And behold, an angel touched him and said to him, “Arise and eat.”
    And he looked, and behold, there was at his head a cake baked on hot stones and a jar of water. And he ate and drank and lay down again.” If there is no baked cake and water by my head, I’ll assume God is calling me home.
    October 10 at 9:50pm · Like · 1
  • Jed Kramer Thought #2 from Scripture: I know this is extreme, but did Jesus not model “assisted suicide”? In John 10 “I lay down my life for the sheep…No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord.” Likewise, in John 15 “Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.” In both cases, the individual losing their life was not doing so to escape pain. I don’t believe this gives us all the green light to end our lives when we become uncomfortable in this life. But, giving one’s life in a sacrificial way for the good of others seems to be virtuous, not a sin.
    October 10 at 10:21pm · Edited · Like
  • Ed Chait Jesus did not commit suicide, He submitted Himself completely to the Father’s will.
    October 10 at 10:12pm · Like · 1
  • Jed Kramer Thanks, Ed. I suppose that’s my point. It is inappropriate to accuse a person of ‘suicide’ for laying down their life for the good of others. An elderly person in relationship with God, who feels a peace in regard to the race they have run could decline further life-prolonging treatment so that their loved ones who would be attending to him could fully engage with others … increasing their potential to bring others to Christ. I do not see this as suicide either. There just isn’t Scriptural support to claim that God’s will is an artificially extended life. We should give each person in this circumstance the freedom to seek God’s will for them personally.
    October 10 at 10:24pm · Edited · Like
  • Ed Chait It’s a sticky wicket. People have different beliefs about what constitutes an artificially extended life. Health care directives can be complicated because it’s not a black and white issue.
    October 10 at 10:33pm · Like
  • Ed Chait I don’t know Jed, Jesus willingly went to the cross, but the timing of events was determined according to the Father’s will.
    October 10 at 10:52pm · Like
  • Tim White Jed, I am sorry. I don’t use as much scripture on this message board because I assume the writers know the same scriptures I would use and would not want to insult knowledge. My understanding of euthanasia in scripture is absolute, and the same as abortion. It is not so much a sin against man as it is an affront to the life-giver (Gen. 9:6). God is sovereign over life and death (Eccl. 8:8), and man is only granted the right to alter that in just punishment of crimes and in holy, just wars (Romans 13:1-5). Our lives belong to God, the life-giver (Job 1:21), and our assertion that we can make decisions concerning shortening it to relieve pain is rebellion against heaven (Psalm 24:1). Any shortening of life interrupts Christ’s working in a life (Romans 5:3-5), and inhibits the completion of one’s course (or assignment, 2 Tim. 4:7). For a believer, it also comes with the rejection of the grace to live, a gift of God which is snubbed (2 Corinthians 12:9). My worry is mostly man’s tendency to shake his fist in God’s face, saying, “This is my area of authority. I determine when I die,” when it was Jesus Christ himself who breathed that life into that one, a gift to be valued and prized (Genesis 2:7).
    October 11 at 8:22am · Like · 1
  • Jed Kramer Ed & Tim, this is what I’m getting at. I am not advocating for euthanasia. I intend to fully subject myself to God’s will (as I hope the unsaved will also do prior to their death). My concern is the attempt to hold onto this life when it is no longer God’s will for us to do so. Both extremes are wrong: to shake your fist at God and say “I’m done running the race” when there’s more to run, and to stiff arm God’s welcome home while clinging to this present life which is only a shadow our life to come. Or, for loved ones to keep their relatives around in this life when it is their will to do so, not God’s. I appreciate the scriptures you referenced. The emphasis in Eccl 8:8 was that we do not have the power to retain or extend our lives. In regard to 2 Tim 4, when we have finished the race set before us, should we really be hanging out at the finish line as long as possible? As a father, I’d tell my son, “Good race! Now, come home.” Yes, God is able to bring us home when he wants to. But, God still grants us free will … even if we exercise our will to remain in this body artificially longer than God intends. I don’t support euthanasia. But, I am not convinced by what I have seen among those who are near death that extending their suffering is God’s will. Eccl 8:15 commends the enjoyment of life all the days God gives him. Yes, we will also suffer. But, the verses I see regarding suffering, pertain to suffering for doing God’s will. Suffering at the end of one’s life is not the result of doing God’s will. It is simply a part of the curse of death.
    October 11 at 11:10am · Like
  • Sarah Van Baale Jed – I don’t think anyone is advocating for everyone to be put on life support just to maintain a physical presence in this world. But we are very blessed in America to have many resources to help improve our health. Some groups believe all health care is wrong because everything is in God’s hands. This is as foolish as not eating food from the grocery store because God didn’t put it on your plate. However, as Tim said, euthanasia is a matter of trying to usurp God’s authority. When people intentionally try to end a life through excessive amounts of medicine, withholding food and water, or more extreme means like jumping off a cliff, it is all a sin. We should always do our best to give glory to God in life and in the process of dying. If we can eat, we should eat. If we can breathe, we should breathe. If we can sing God’s praises, we should do that as well. There is no shame in taking medicine to relieve pain, but when the purpose of medicine becomes death, that is when we have overstepped. If our souls can still glorify God, we should do so until the moment God chooses to take us to Heaven. By doing so, we will be a testimony to those around us.
    October 11 at 11:34am · Like · 3
  • Tim White Jed, most of our suffering will not be for doing God’s will, but to promote what we are becoming (James 1:1 ff).
    October 11 at 11:56am · Like
  • Jed Kramer I totally agree, Sarah. Eat, breathe, Praise God! Taking medicine or not depends on each individual situation & what they believe God is telling them. It seemed to me that the conversation was going in the direction of preserving life on this earth at all costs in all instances. I wasn’t comfortable with that level of absolutism.
    October 11 at 11:59am · Like
  • Jed Kramer Agreed, TIm. And, I agree that God continues to work on our character near our time of death. Even so, promoting what we are becoming seems to be very much part of becoming more capable of God’s will better. At some point there is little ‘becoming’ in a person’s near death suffering. In another thought, if such suffering is of merit, then there is no point in medicating to prevent such suffering anyway. I hope that I’m not coming off as argumentative. I’m trying to look at this situation through various lenses. Thanks for helping me to consider such perspectives through Scripture.
    October 11 at 12:10pm · Like
  • Ed Chait Sometimes it’s not just family members that want life preserved at all costs. I’ve known doctors who took it so personally when one of their patients died, that they would continue to provide heroic measures beyond what was appropriate.
    October 11 at 12:49pm · Like · 1
  • Tim White And I am not saying I disagree with you. You are voicing one side of the debate that echoes in my own heart. And I am trying to echo the other side.
    October 11 at 12:57pm · Like · 2
  • Ed Chait If something is correct spiritually according to Scripture, is it also always practical? I don’t mean practical as in easy.
    October 11 at 1:06pm · Like
  • Ed Chait “If it’s spiritual, it’s practical” Is that true?
    October 11 at 1:11pm · Like
  • Jed Kramer Interesting question. My son just read the question and asked, “What does practical mean?” I understand that practical isn’t always easy. It could be hard, but be the most direct way to achieve a particular affect. How do you mean practical?
    October 11 at 2:09pm · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait I’m thinking about what I mean by practical, but I’ll post back.
    October 11 at 2:52pm · Like
  • Tim White Practical. Someone smarter than me (which could be just about anybody) once said, “If we knew what God knew and could see what God sees, we would choose what God chooses.” That seems pretty practical.
    October 11 at 3:01pm · Like · 2
  • Ed Chait First Jed, I think it’s very cool that your son was reading this thread and that you discussed it together.

    Practical
    1. of, involving, or concerned with experience or actual use; not theoretical
    2. of or concerned with ordinary affairs, work, etc
    3. adapted or adaptable for use
    4. of, involving, or trained by practice
    5. being such for all useful or general purposes; virtual
    6. (Education) an examination in the practical skills of a subject: a science practical.

    The way I’m thinking of practical is 1-3. I brought it up because this thread made me think of that saying, “if it’s spiritual, it’s practical”. I guess whether something is practical or not would depend on our worldview. For believers, suffering is practical, but extending life at all costs is neither spiritual nor practical. It’s easy to say that according to God, life is sacred and it’s wrong to take matters into our own hands, but in practice, it’s not easy to apply that to our actual experience. I’m not sure that saying is true.
    October 12 at 10:35pm · Like
  • Tim White Interesting note: concerning practical, my devotional today took me to 1 Corinthians 1:21, “For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.” Something I never picked up until today, that based upon the wisdom of God, man’s wisdom cannot find God. I am excited to study how that is wisdom. Why did God do it that way? I think I have a clue. Any comments?
    October 13 at 9:55am · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait Heb 11:6? If we could find God through our wisdom, then we would not have to have faith.
    October 13 at 6:37pm · Like · 1
  • Jed Kramer You’ve stumped me. I can’t think of a single spiritual (Spirit-led) activity that is not also practical. There is a saying that one can be “so heavenly minded that they’re of no earthly good”. In such cases I suppose a person’s spiritual convictions may not be practical. But then, maybe practicality is a litmus test to determine whether we are being Spirit led rather than just ‘spiritual’.
    October 13 at 10:08pm · Edited · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait I know I didn’t define practical the same way as a nonbeliever. It was more about what was most expeditious and efficient and/or best for what I believed was best for the over-all good of everyone.
    October 13 at 10:11pm · Like

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