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Discussion on Spiritual Gifts

June 14th, 2015

Hmmmmm….. I just got a question on spiritual gifts. Before I jump into it, I have to mention that probably my understanding of spiritual gifts and the falacy of they way it is taught now may not align with the ministry’s position. I will answer it to the best of my understanding if you wish.

  • Ed Chait I would like to know your understanding if you would be willing to share it with us.
    June 13 at 3:05pm · Like
  • MeLissa LeFleur Houdmann Tim, feel free to request reassignment if you want and I’ll assign you another one. I have plenty to give out yet today.
    June 13 at 3:22pm · Like
  • Tim White Before I do, here is what I wrote on my blog once:
    June 13 at 3:35pm · Like
  • Tim White https://pastortimwhite.wordpress.com/…/what-spiritual…/

    What Spiritual Gifts Are Not…
    I Corinthians 12:4-6, “Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but…
    PASTORTIMWHITE.WORDPRESS.COM
    June 13 at 3:35pm · Like · Remove Preview
  • MeLissa LeFleur Houdmann Sorry, I won’t have time to read that today. So many questions to assign!
    June 13 at 3:38pm · Like
  • Tim White I will request reassignment. I do not believe God gives individuals spiritual gifts at salvation which enable us to live in more independence from God, to do better work without Him, etc. The passages used to support this often are talking about the gi…See More
    June 13 at 3:43pm · Like · 1
  • Kristi-Joy Matovich Thanks for being open to reassignment, Tim White. And for sharing your position. it is always interesting to hear other ideas.
    June 13 at 4:57pm · Like · 1
  • Byron Earnheart I tend to agree w your thoughts on gifts. However, the inventories have a place in my opinion. Knowing our strengths and weaknesses can help us find where God has called us to work. If properly executed (and there’s the key phrase!) they can be a great tool for an individual to know how God has equipped them to serve the Body and a church to know what tools God has given at their disposal. Are they the be all end all? No. Should we rely more heavily on what/where God calls us to work? Absolutely! My point is they do have some validity in my opinion.
    June 13 at 7:41pm · Like · 1
  • Tim White The inventory score out, typically the same before salvation as they do after salvation, so that grace of God was given at conception, not salvation. God is not so pleased with what we do in our strengths, but what we do in our weaknesses because we have to depend upon Him. In our weaknesses we glory. In our strengths we become weak due to self reliance.
    June 13 at 9:19pm · Like · 2
  • Tim White I have said enough but I will read what others say.
    June 13 at 9:20pm · Like
  • Ed Chait I tend to agree with your last comment Tim. I think we can confuse our natural talents, which I believe are also God-given before the foundation of the world, with spiritual gifts, which is why people would tend to score the same before salvation as after.
    June 13 at 10:26pm · Like · 1
  • Byron Earnheart Tim, I agree with your premise. My experience with them has been positive in that it has broached the subject of “how has God equipped me to serve.” Your point of the score not changing pre conversion vs post is the reason I think that gifts aren’t bestowed at the moment of salvation. BUT, if God says ” go do X” and X doesn’t fit into what the inventory says, God rules. My point is that these inventories could be the starting point of the conversation of “how does a God want me to function in the Body?”

    Personally, I think gifts are sanctified personality traits God uses to advance His Kingdom. As a “Calvinist”, I believe in an election from the foundation of the world. So, when was my gift assigned…when I prayed a “sinner’s prayer” or from the foundation of the world when I was elected by His grace alone? What about my wife and mother who don’t have a “moment of salvation” like that. They are saved…without a doubt…but when did they get their gifts?

    To me, Occam’s Razor applies. It’s a simpler understanding of gifts to view them as sanctified personality traits than to believe that we are bestowed with some gifts that may be counter to how God wired us from birth. Nowhere in scripture do we see that God gives secret powers to His children to the extent of how gifts are portrayed. To me, it borders on Gnosticism.

    I may be WAAAAY off. I freely admit that and welcome correction from wiser brothers and sisters…but as an one who believes as I do, I have award time thinking that God doesn’t already equip His children with the gifts we need to do His work.
    June 13 at 10:26pm · Like · 1
  • Byron Earnheart And…as usual…Ed said it better and more succinct than I!
    June 13 at 10:27pm · Like · 1
  • Lea Ann Davis McCombs If I can weigh in here…I think one aspect being under-emphasized in this discussion is the fact that these gifts of the Spirit are “spiritual.” Everyone has strengths and talents, saved or not. A great teacher can be an atheist, a pagan may enjoy giving. But in order to accomplish God’s work in a human heart, the Holy Spirit must do it. No fancy rhetoric can bring a person to truth, conviction, or salvation unless the Holy Spirit is doing it. He gives us gifts as He sees fit when we are filled with Him. He empowers us beyond our natural abilities to bring about spiritual results. The more we use those gifts to serve him, the more gifts He can entrust to us.

    As a counselor, I must live this. When the Holy Spirit gives me a word of wisdom or knowledge about a client that I have no other way of knowing, it is because He is using that to reach their hearts. When I discern something evil in someone I’ve never met before, and later learn it was true, that is certainly not ME doing it. God gifted me in order to serve Him and others better. The more I use the gifts He gave me, the more He gives. As Paul said, we are to earnestly desire more gifts.

    It seems that although God has already woven into each of us gifts and abilities, they do not take on supernatural power until we are filled with the Holy Spirit and are using them in His service. Only Spirit-empowered gifts bring about spiritual results.
    June 13 at 10:55pm · Edited · Like · 4
  • Byron Earnheart True…but aren’t those gifts already in place within our own wiring? Sure the atheist (non elect…let’s say) could be a great teacher and the elect person could be a great teacher too. The point is those gifts are 1) wired into that person long before salvation but 2) only sanctified (or activated or called upon) once the believer is mature enough to realize where God is calling him/her.
    June 14 at 12:50am · Like · 1
  • Tim White For years, I have had members who would not teach a sunday school class, or witness, or give additionally for a need. These were taught that they had certain spiritual gifts, based on an inventory test, and refused to operate outside of them. When I began to teach that those were natural gifts, but we can do all things through Christ through spiritual gifts, things changed and people became more dependent upon Christ to do things they were not gifted in. They taught classes when that wasn’t their gift and found great joy that God spiritually gifted them to do that on one occasion. They then began to go out fearlessly knowing that if God called them to do something, he would gift them supernaturally for that task if they depended on Him and walked by faith. That fit more into what I understood the economy of faith is under which we are called to serve.
    June 14 at 7:41am · Edited · Like · 1
  • Tim White God doesn’t give gifts to limit our usability, but frees us to do “all things through Christ who is our strength”, so we can practice all spiritual gifts.
    June 14 at 7:43am · Like · 1
  • Jed Kramer Maybe kinda long for FB, but here is a former response I wrote to a Christian worried that he didn’t know his spiritual gift: Greetings! The most important factors related to spiritual gifts involve listening and doing. Both are necessary for you to identify and maximize your gift(s).
    The first step in discerning your spiritual gift(s) is to ask God. (Luke 11:9-13) God may speak through a still, small voice in your head. He may speak to you as you study his word. He may speak to you through other believers. The key is to ask God, and then to listen. If God does not reveal your gift to you, it may be for your benefit. Knowing your gift could possibly limit you if you begin to focus more on your gift than on God who gives you the gift and empowers you. The knowledge of your gifts may puff you up. Even the apostle Paul was not immune from this. (2 Corinthians 12:7-11) It is God who will decide whether or not to reveal your gift to you. Trust him.
    The second step in discerning your spiritual gift(s) is to serve. Any gift is ultimately given so that you are able to serve others and glorify God. (1 Peter 4:10) Our lives do not glorify God if we live in seclusion for hyper-spiritual reasons. It is often in the act of service to others that our spiritual gifts are manifested. In my own life, I have found myself listening to others as they shared with me a difficulty they were facing. As I listened, God enabled me to identify the root of issues and provide a clear direction for them. God confirmed through other Christians at various times in my life that God had given me a gift of discernment. Likewise, as you walk in love with God and your fellow man, God will use you and most likely reveal your gifts to you.
    Be aware that God works through you even when you do not know that he is doing so. God created you for a purpose. He is already using you for his purpose, even in ways you may never know. He equips you for success in whatever role he has designed you for. He will ask you to serve in your area(s) of giftedness and outside those areas. God will equip you for every good work he calls you to. (2 Corinthians 9:8) It is very important not to limit God based on an unhealthy attachment to one of your primary areas of giftedness. The story of the Good Samaritan is a perfect example of this. (Luke 10:27-37) Several individuals refused to help the man who was beaten and left to die. They all valued their position and area of giftedness above extending mercy to a person in need. However, it is clear that God would have preferred that any one of them should help the stranger.
    Below are some good articles on the topic. There is some repetition, but each contains its own unique element or focus. Below the articles are some additional ramblings regarding spiritual gifts vs natural gifts.
    http://www.compellingtruth.org/spiritual-gift.html
    http://www.compellingtruth.org/spiritual-gifts.html
    http://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-gifts-list.html
    http://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-gift.html
    http://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-gifts.html
    http://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-gifts-survey.html
    It is a mystery that within our bodies of flesh and blood dwells an eternal spirit. (2 Corinthians 4:7) My daughter recently asked me why God created the physical universe and our physical bodies in the first place. I explained that God created us to have relationship with him. She clarified, “Why didn’t he just create us in our eternal/spiritual form to have relationship with him that way?” I was stumped. I let her know that her question would probably be one of those questions she will have to ask God in heaven. Even so, in God’s wisdom, he did create our temporal world and bodies. There is somehow a spiritual connection between the divine and how we care for our bodies, our world, and the temporal needs of others. (Matthew 25:35-46)
    Given this mystery, the difference between spiritual and natural gifts is blurred. Or, maybe the blurring effect is because spiritual and natural gifts are given in such a way that they work together. Samson’s spiritual gift as a judge of Israel was enabled by his physical gift of strength. A person whose spiritual gift is teaching most likely received natural gifts such as organization and communication. A person whose spiritual gift is serving may have received natural giftedness in plumbing, construction, etc. This is why I am convinced there are many spiritual gifts at work under our noses. We often only see the physical work being done, and we fail to see the spiritual effect of the work. An article or two above suggest that there are many more spiritual gifts than the 9 or so listed in the Bible. Based on 1 Peter 4:10, which is one of my favorite verses, it is fair to say that any gift used to serve others is a spiritual gift because it extends God’s grace to others.
    I pray that as you pursue God, speak to God, listen to God, and serve God that he will bring clarity to you in regard to your spiritual gifts. I pray that God will encourage you as he reveals many of the ways he has already enabled you to use your spiritual gifts. I pray that God will do mighty things in you and through you as you commit every gift, talent, and ability to him. To God be the glory! Amen.
    Here is a link to an online test you can use to identify your primary spiritual gifts. I caution you to take any such test with a grain of salt. What you hear from the Lord and from people you know and trust is more reliable than tests requiring you to provide answers yourself.
    http://www.spiritualgiftstest.com/test/adult
    http://www.gotquestions.org/spiritual-gifts-test.html

    What is my spiritual gift?
    What is my spiritual gift? How can I determine what my spiritual gift is?
    COMPELLINGTRUTH.ORG
    June 14 at 9:38pm · Like · 1 · Remove Preview
  • Ed Chait Jed, I love your daughter’s question.
    June 14 at 9:49pm · Edited · Like
  • Jed Kramer She keeps me on my toes. smile emoticon She’s a precious gift.
    June 14 at 10:09pm · Like · 1
  • Marc Weiss I think spiritual gifts do exist today, but differently. For example, the gift of tongues make sense (to me) as the ability to learn another language. If you read Acts carefully, when the Holy Spirit came into room, they all could speak another language. I do not fault certain denominations on their view, but I never understood why one could “speak in tongues” so no one else could understand. Is not the mission to spread the Word? That is one example – so I take a similar, but diverging view here. The gift is given by God and we opt to use it for His glory or not, if that makes any sense in writing.
    June 14 at 10:18pm · Edited · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait I don’t completely agree with Tim’s viewpoint if I understand it to mean that every member of the Body has equal potential ability to serve the Body in all areas of service. I do believe, as I believe GQ does, that there is a lot of overlap in our gifts and that focusing on finding our one specific gift is limiting to our service. I also agree with Marc, Tim and others that using what gifts we have to glorify God versus getting puffed up is a key thing. When our focus is serving God, the Holy Spirit can use us in a powerful way.
    June 14 at 10:40pm · Edited · Like · 1
  • Marc Weiss Ed – thanks. I do not knock any denomination; I just see gifts as things God gives. Sometimes I think Christians make it more complicated than it is. Some of it is very complex, but some of it is “face value” and I just think gifts are face value – tongues being ability to learn a language (like you and Hebrew).
    June 14 at 10:49pm · Like
  • Ed Chait Marc, this is off topic, but if someone asked you about a good church to attend, you would not use your judgment/discernment to recommend a Bible-centered, Christ-honoring church/denomination?
    June 14 at 11:03pm · Like
  • Ed Chait Still wrestling with the gifts question. Maybe I do fully agree with Tim’s understanding. If God is able to make a donkey speak, He can certainly empower any one of us to accomplish what He desires to accomplish.
    Yesterday at 6:15am · Like
  • Marc Weiss Ed – Not following you 100% – but I would only recommend a Jesus-centered, Bible preaching church, yes. What other kind of church is there?
    Yesterday at 10:07am · Like
  • Ed Chait Hi Marc, I think I understood your comment that you “do not knock any denomination” to mean that if someone asked your opinion about joining say the JW’s or a prosperity gospel church, you would not guide and advise them not to do so.
    20 hrs · Like
  • Tim White Lol, I just reread my original post and it did not say what I was hoping it would communicate. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
    20 hrs · Like
  • Ed Chait OK then, what were you hoping it would communicate? smile emoticon If you are willing to share.
    20 hrs · Edited · Like
  • Tim White I did not mean to say that GQ was teaching a fallacy because they do not exactly teach what I believe. That was presumptuous, possibly arrogant, particularly in that I really don’t know what I am talking about. I haven’t made up my mind what I believe but am leaning one direction, like of like on the local/universal Church issue or the closed, close or open communication topic.
    20 hrs · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait Oh OK, I thought you meant that your blog post didn’t communicate what you were hoping it would communicate. Man, this sure would be easier to do in person, lol
    19 hrs · Like
  • Tim White Lol, yes, it is.
    19 hrs · Like
  • Marc Weiss Ed – I was talking about the pentacostals smile emoticon I was not trying to call anyone out as I do NOT believe they are “unchristian.” I believe they have a different view than mine, but I did not want to come across as arrogant and judgmental. I just disagree on their view of gift of tongue. I did not want to offend ANYONE.

    JWs are a cult. While prosperity gospel is not biblical, I do believe there are some saved people sitting in those churches, but at the same time, I would never recommend a church that did not preach the gospel.
    10 hrs · Like · 1
  • Marc Weiss Tim, I understood you. I also see how Ed understood it as well. It is one of those things where we can read it two different ways. Just like John 11:21, ” Martha said to Jesus, “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” I could read that 4 different ways and I believe all could be in context. It is just the nature of writing smile emoticon
    10 hrs · Like
  • Marc Weiss Last one – my gift example was only an example on the counter-argument. Like Tim White, this is not my area. I can see God working different ways in people. Am I right? One day I will ask Jesus. Today, it makes sense to me, but I would never teach is as 100% true.
    10 hrs · Like
  • Ed Chait Thanks Marc, I thought it might be a case where you were using a narrower definition of “denomination” than I was thinking of.

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