Help on a Question about Jehovah’s Witnesses and Jesus being the firstborn

Fellow writers I need some of your wisdom in answering a question. I would rather not have it reassigned but I am not sure where to begin on the answer. Question is: “I believe Jesus is preeminent over creation but I am dealing with a Jehovah witness via e-mail and he of course thinks Jesus is created. When I explained to him Jesus is firstborn, meaning a title of sovereignty, or being pre-eminent over creation, he responded by asking why isn’t the Father or the Holy Spirit said to be firstborn (pre-eminent) over creation? Why just the Son?Your help on this question would be greatly appreciated. Thank you, Jim K”

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Ed Chait http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/…/how-to-use-the…/

You can even use their “Bible” to do this. Since you’re communicating by email, you may have to scan the napkin or use some other means to illustrate this truth, but even just using John 1:1 and 1:3 proves that Jesus was not created.

How to Use the Back of a Napkin to Prove to a Jehovah’s Witness That Jesus Is God…

Years ago I read the following simple but effective illustration from Greg Koukl on how to use a napkin, a pen, and a Bible verse to show a Jehovah’s Witness that Scripture teaches (even in their own translation) that Jesus must be God. Greg, who is the president of Stand to Reason and the author of…

thegospelcoalition.org

May 28 at 11:43am · Edited · Like · Remove Preview
Cory Carwile ^Ed, that article is handy. James, the answers that immediately come to my mind mostly involve context. The passages referring to Jesus as the firstborn aren’t talking about the Father or the Spirit; why would they need to be mentioned? Second, it’s not controversial in orthodox Christianity to believe that Christ is given the Creation by the Father. Jesus is not created, but He *is* the only begotten (not made) Son of God. The Father is not the “firstborn” because He was never *given* anything, it’s just His by default. But Christ, equal to but also submissive to the Father, is granted authority; he fulfills the metaphorical status of firstborn.

May 28 at 11:43am · Like
Paul W Collins We serve three persons in one God, He is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. He is eternal, no beginning, no end. We don

May 28 at 11:44am · Like
Ed Chait Nothing can create itself.

May 28 at 11:46am · Like · 1
Justin Tilghman Colossians 1:16 comes to mind for me. There it says that Jesus is the image of the invisible God and that ALL THINGS were CREATED through HIM. He can’t be created if ALL THINGS were created through Him. The Greek construction leaves no ambiguity in ALL THINGS. It includes all things in heaven AND earth and everything visible or invisible. It is clearly talking about Jesus. If he were created himself, this would not be true.

May 28 at 11:49am · Like · 2
Ed Chait More ammunition Justin, thank you.. The proximity of John 1:1 and 1:3 is helpful because obviously John is irrefutably referring to Jesus in both verses.

May 28 at 12:38pm · Edited · Like · 1
James Toland Y’all are amazing. Thank you!

May 28 at 12:46pm · Like · 1
Leslie Van Anne They teach that Jesus is the archangel Michael (Jn 1:1).

May 28 at 2:42pm · Like · 1
Dean Revell The biggest issue is of course the deity of Christ and I came across a really good couple of verses thanks to a colleague here on FB. If we ask the JW who is the Saviour ? And they reply Jehovah is the Saviour (YHWH – see Isaiah 43 v.2 as the new world translation ‘ I even I am Jehovah (or Lord) and apart from me there is no saviour.’ Then we fast track to Acts 4 v.10 -12 – uh, who is the saviour ? Did you say ‘Jehovah’ ? Well, it says here that the saviour is Jesus Christ – there cant be two saviours so that makes Him YHWH too – just as it was speaking from the burning bush.

May 28 at 4:23pm · Like · 3
Byron Earnheart I second all of the above. We do believe in a triune Godhead. Each expression of that Godhead serves different functions though of the same essence. The Son is not the Comforter. He tells us the Comforter must come. The Comforter is not the Father etc etc. Each has a specific role in God’s revelation of Himself to His creation. The Son is His direct reflection of Himself to mankind. To Him is assigned creation. That’s His role…to be the prophet/priest/King. (And we could apply that to the HS and the Father and so on…). But when we look at those different expressions of the Godhead, based on Scripture, we can’t deny their “one-ness” either.

Don’t know if that’s even remotely helpful…but it helps this country boy!

May 28 at 10:53pm · Like · 1
Marc Weiss Here is another argument to help you. The above is perfect. In Exodus 33, it clearly states no one can see God and live (for reasons later, I believe that is the Father). Yet in Genesis 32 Jacob admitted he wrestled with God. Had he done so, he would have died. Abraham negotiated with who many believe was God (over Lot). So, if no one can see God and live, who was this “man”?

The Jewish writings in the Targom, had the concept of the Memra. Literally translated, it is the Word of God. It was One equal to the Father, but not the Father Himself. Reconciling the Jewish concept of this Memra, taking John 1:1-3, and 1:14 – I believe that all of these Old Testament figures was Jesus before He was “born” as a man in Bethlehem. The only way to explain it, is that He is eternal as God is. Furthermore, Colossians 1:17 and Hebrews 1:3 support that He sustains the universe.

Therefore, we must conclude that a) Jesus is God, 2) He is not the Father, and 3) He is eternal as He created and sustains life.

While I know the Memra may not be agreed everywhere, in my pea brain, this is what makes sense. In fact, this concept is what helped me believe the whole Bible. It works for me.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/10618-memra

MEMRA – JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.

jewishencyclopedia.com

May 29 at 12:34am · Edited · Like · 2 · Remove Preview
Ed Chait I thought I would clarify that my “more ammunition” comment above was in regards to countering the JW’s, not one another’s viewpoints on this question. I am guilty of putting “being right” ahead of being kind and loving often, so I was convicted over this.

May 29 at 9:41am · Like · 1
Marc Weiss Ed – Many of us do that (including me). The reality is we have to let people know they can meet Jesus where they’re at. Salvation is instant, sanctification is a process. I also am hard on the JWs. I came at two of them with John 1 a little hostile, and I wish I hadn’t. I am growing.

May 29 at 10:15am · Like · 1
Gwen Sellers Great response, James!

May 29 at 11:12am · Like · 1
James Toland I couldn’t have done it without the wise counsel of my fellow brothers and sisters, so thank you all again!

May 29 at 11:58am · Unlike · 2
Dwight Payne Ed, I loved that napkin lesson! Thanks!

May 29 at 1:35pm · Like · 2
Ed Chait You’re welcome, Dwight. The only problem is that since I learned it, no JW’s have come a knockin’ smile emoticon

May 29 at 3:24pm · Like · 1
Fred Apelquist I know others will provide more in depth & insightful comments, but a very quick & simply way to address (dismiss?) the issue of #1, #2, etc., and without going into a lengthy theological explanation about the Trinity, is to simply cite Genesis 1:26 where the communal “we” is used, without any discussion of stature or birth order. God is simply & “pre-eminent over creation” as Father, Son, & Spirit.

May 29 at 3:33pm · Like · 1
Patrick Thompson Col. 1:15 the term “first born” carries the O.T. meanng of being “first in position”, heir” or “supreme”. As the eternal Son of God, Chirst is heir over all things, complete authority, control and power to do as he desires (Mt. 28:18; 1st Pet. 3:22; 2nd Pet. 2:1)

May 29 at 8:51pm · Like