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Help with a Q on what Joseph feared in taking Mary as his wife

December 26th, 2014

Hi everyone! Can you help me with a question? This man is wondering WHAT Joseph feared, exactly, in taking Mary as his wife. What is the cultural background here? Would he have feared his own social outcasting or death or something else? Or just that Mary would face those things? What happened to couples who were legally married yet not living together yet, and found to be with child? I’m not sure where to go for this kind of cultural history…any websites you can point me to for facts would be great. Or maybe one of you is an expert on Jewish culture! Thanks!

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  • Ed Chait According to Leviticus 20:10, Mary could have been put to death under Mosaic law. We don’t know exactly what was going through Joseph’s mind, but I like to think that his primary motive for wanting to divorce her quietly was to protect her.
    December 26 at 12:42pm · Like
  • Danielle Swiontek Thanks, Ed Chait. I think maybe the asker is also wondering (I didn’t post his question verbatim) if Joseph could have been blamed for Mary’s “condition”, with people saying the couple had slept together before the appropriate time. Could this have been the case?
    December 26 at 12:49pm · Like
  • Ed Chait Gotcha, I’ll see if I can find anything.
    December 26 at 12:52pm · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait Joseph would not have had to fear being put to death under Mosaic law (Exodus 16:16-17). I found this article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordeal_of_the_bitter_water
    December 26 at 2:04pm · Like · 1
  • Tim White Remember, the people of Nazareth (a small town) knew Mary and her activity. As Danielle Swiontek well stated, the accusing finger could have easily been pointed at Joseph, she was not flirtatious and unlikely to be one who would “party”.
    December 26 at 6:48pm · Like · 2
  • Danielle Swiontek So, in the case of two people having pre-marital (or before the marriage process were completely finished) sex, what would be the repercussions in Jewish culture? Anyone know?
    December 26 at 7:50pm · Like · 1
  • Tim White Death for both. I can give you the reference but I have to look it up again.
    December 26 at 9:19pm · Like
  • Danielle Swiontek This verse only speaks of adultery. I believe it would be fornication to have sex before marriage (or before the time to consummate the marriage that has already begun). What about this case? It seems to me that this is not looked at as quite as serious an infraction of the Jewish law. This is one of the more informative answers I’ve found so far in my online search…see Rabbi Leonard’s answer: http://www.jewishvaluesonline.org/94

    What does Judaism say about pre-marital sex? | Jewish Values Online
    Multi Jewish perspectives on moral and ethical…
    JEWISHVALUESONLINE.ORG
    December 26 at 9:36pm · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait That’s a very informative and interesting article. I found the following comment by Rabbi Leonard particularly interesting, as I thought things would have been more severe in the old days.

    “Irrespective of intention, a more severe prohibition most likely applies to almost all cases of premarital sex these days.”

    Thanks for sharing this Danielle!
    Yesterday at 5:21am · Like · 1
  • Tim White Danielle, as I understand the issue, since Mary and Joseph had been pledged to each other, it would have been viewed as adultery. Leviticus 20:10 is the reference I find in the older commentaries.
    Yesterday at 8:29am · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait (Leviticus 20:10) “If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbor, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.

    Does that also hold true for betrothed couples who commit premarital sex? It doesn’t sound like the same situation, or am I missing something?
    Yesterday at 1:11pm · Like · 1
  • Tim White It sounds different today but back then, divorce was required to call off the wedding as if the marriage was consumated. She was already promised, by covenant, to be his wife, and the official expectation was for him to publicly divorce her because of unfaithfulness. He determined to divorce her privately.
    Yesterday at 2:58pm · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait OK, I understand, thank you Tim. Would you say that trying to answer the question of what Joseph’s motives were for wanting to divorce her quietly pure conjecture?
    Yesterday at 3:48pm · Like
  • Tim White Ed, without a doubt, no one should be dogmatic about their conclusions. But curiosity which causes people to look deeper while trying to understand the factors is a good thing, I think.
    Yesterday at 4:21pm · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait I think so too. I learned from this thread. I was thinking in terms of providing an answer, it would be good to say that we can’t be dogmatic about it.
    Yesterday at 4:36pm · Like · 1
  • Jed Kramer Tim White, Deut 22:24 agrees with what you said regarding the close link between betrothal & marriage. Even though Mary & Joseph were betrothed, wouldn’t their situation be more like Deut 22:28,29 since they were betrothed to one another? “If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.” (for curiosities sake, not for including in an answer)
    23 hrs · Edited · Like · 1
  • Ed Chait These are the closing paragraphs from the article by Rabbi Leonard Levy that Danielle posted a link to above.


    “When faced with the temptation to engage in sex before fully entering marriage, we should seek to emulate the disciplined behavior of Boaz in Ruth 3:13, as understood by the Rabbis (Sifrei Bemidar, Beha’alotekha, pisqa 88). Boaz was sleeping by his grain on the threshing floor when he noticed that a woman was laying by his feet. When Ruth answered Boaz’s inquiry by identifying herself and indicating that she would be willing to marry him in order that he could redeem the estate of her deceased husband and father-in-law, Boaz said, “By the life of Hashem, lie here until morning.” The Rabbis understand Boaz to have made two separate statements, only the second of which was addressed to Ruth. “Since the evil inclination was troubling Boaz all night, telling him, ‘you are unmarried and seeking a wife, and she is unmarried and seeking a husband, and you know that a wife can be acquired through intercourse, get up and have intercourse with her, and she will become your wife,’ and Boaz said (swore) to the evil inclination, ‘By the life of Hashem, I will not touch her,’ and to the woman he said, ‘lie here until morning.”

    Since most people lack that level of discipline, Jewish Law requires that a man and a woman who are not married to each other should not be alone in private in order not to be in a position of temptation (Kiddushin 80b-81a; Maimonides, Laws of Forbidden Intercourse 22:3 ff.; Shulhan Arukh EH 22).”
    23 hrs · Like · 1
  • Tim White Possibly, Jed. But we have to remember that Joseph was probably not only controlled by his knowledge of what we call the Old Testament, but also the Torah and Jewish traditions. I am not an expert at that. Perhaps someone more familiar with Jewish traditions and teachings at the time of Christ could answer this. My best guess is that I got my information from J. V. McGee.
    23 hrs · Like · 2
  • Jed Kramer Good point, Tim. Ed, thanks for posting that bit of the article. The experience of Boaz with Ruth would most likely have helped form Jewish tradition in Joseph’s day too…further supporting Tim’s point.
    23 hrs · Like · 2
  • Danielle Swiontek Thank you all for the discussion. I think it has helped inform my answer.
    23 hrs · Like · 1

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